:). These turtles gets promoted eventually just based on time spent at MS and because they werent doing anything wrong even though they dont really meet CSP criteria. Expect my salary to go up after the cleanup. I dont know why this is the case. If you were in the running your manager would have told you / asked for ammunition by now. I haven't seen one single person getting hired below L63 in my group during last year. Senior directors are tenured members of an organization who are considered part of the leadership or executive team, in which they represent their department or division. Mini could you please confirm or deny this. If you do not market yourself well, even if you are a superstar here at MSFT, your achievements might just go unrecognized (or they might be selectively recognized). There is a comment about reporting to someone who is the same level as you are. When you see a bozo who is L65 it is highly likely that he had joined MS recently at L64-L65 directly.Here's biggest difference in expectations between levels: The L62 guys are supposed to be able to lead their feature and perhaps influence couple of related features by spreading their best practices. Your level is essentially recognition of your circle of influence or radius of your contribution. At Level 66, Microsoft employees reported that nearly 40% of compensation was in the form of cash and stock bonuses. One of my august colleges uses the analogy of a trapeze artist. The CSPs are a good attempt to define each level, but anyone who is looking at the CSPs and saying I do that, and that, , but Im not getting promoted is almost certainly missing the point. Saturday, November 15, 2008. In MCS, soft skills are often more important than hard skills since you work with customers (often angry ones), sales (often under pressure and looking for someone to blame). But the clarity I have through the rear view mirror is staggering -- I was defining myself by what a bunch of poorly skilled managers thought, in a company that hadn't moved it's stock price in seven years. Mgmt, MSFT levels: CEO > VP > Partner(Director) > Principal > Sr. Eng > Eng 2 > Eng 1. Chief Executive Officer and Director. The scope and situations have become more and more challenging over time. Weirder sh*t has happened before. That is, its hard to define, but I know it when I see it. Will some new person to the team who shows high growth potential push you aside even though you've been doing really solid work for years?Sometimes I wish it worked like an experience bar in a video game where you can clearly see when you will "ding". You don't get your money by snatching it out of Google or Apple's hands, you get it by convincing your customers to hand it to you.Do you want to know why Vista is such an unmitigated disaster? if they'd only stop doing X and start doing Y on a sustained basis, I could see it Microsoft: Citi Cuts Ests, Target On PC Slowdown. >Real HR managers from Microsoft would have just three [sic]s in a post of that length.I hope HR gets cut. One of my reports and I had that conversation not that long ago, and I explained to him that at 62, he can take on any task I'm asking him to do. Lots of terrible mid level managers at MS. To the person from MCS who said it was easy to get to 64 in MCS - MCSinTheFieldI agree with you there, you can get to a L64 in MCS but try to ever transfer to another org as a L64. And how do you represent yourself as a leader and influencer when you are in a room with 6 other people vying for the exact same thing? We in general hire very smart people who can figure it out. Harder for L64. Title doesn't matter, that's a job description. They just plain resonate. Senior Director, Head of Data Sciences VMware Aug 2014 - Jul 20217 years Bengaluru Area, India Global Leader and Head of Data Sciences Lead Data scientist teams across Bangalore, Bulgaria, Palo. Wow. You've told me you're not willing to have the hard career conversation with me and/or that you're not willing to do what I told you needed to be done when we had that conversation. I'm interested in reading your perspective and what advice you'd give to someone new to the company looking at a career path similar to your own. I want them productive and about career success at Microsoft, especially your thoughts about achieving L63. Mini, as good as your writeup is, there is too much emphasis on this level promo business in MS, and I have seen my fair share of people that have been burnt by it. If it does, are you demonstrating success at that next level already and do people know about it? The Goldstars have already been canceled for this quarter.Next, I believe this post will most likely be useful for those who entered MS as intern/college hires. This is obviously difficult to manage. The L64 guys should be able to influence their skip level orgs plus one or two groups outside of the skip org. I'm a level 64 lead in Windows and this post is spot on. Microsoft, Go to company page Show me you can do this and want to learn more and you'll be on my radar as a possibility.6. You dont have the same experience or abilities to perform in a core STB senior level role. Any suggestions on how to focus on this. If you have an itching to talk about something else, please go here: But Mini, I Want To Talk About Posted by How accurate is this most likely Total Pay range (base + additional) of $396K-$652K/yr? There certainly doesn't seem to be any shortage of people wanting in. But it is also clear that there are places at Microsoft where these skills are not required until higher.I have a 62 test somehow make it to dev with mediocre dev skills, social skills limited to indifference or hostility, who managed to delegate most of the hard work to a smart kid hired to work with him and he made it to 63. Taking on the toughest hardest problems does line up well with something everyone has talked about on this post - that is - make your managers look good. The estimated additional pay is $257,304 per year. At a intl sub level a 63 is two ic to the GM. The estimated additional pay is $257,304 per year. After I became a lead & manager, I was given a team in turmoil after a re-org and straightened that out. You may see lots of other people being jerks around you, but trust me, people remember when you are the nice, dependable, smart one.5. The estimated base pay is $243,438 per year. Contributed and exceeded in two roles - getting G-Star, then moved to another team with clear headroom and again, exceeded all commits and moved to L64. Seriously - if you wave a competitor's offer in my face what have you told me? Senior level executive excelling at increasing operational efficiencies, improving . Here are some thoughts from a L62-er who truly wants to accept whats keeping me from getting to 63 and work on it. I have some colleagues now stuck with a career that they dont really want because they move up too much. Microsoft's '08 Mistakes: The Software Giant's Three Errors http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/121908-microsofts-08-mistakes-the-software.html?hpg1=bnJust three? Grammar nitpicking is fine when it's accurate. You havent seen nothing yet. For example, see http://www.intropsych.com/ch07_cognition/learning_curve.html. When I mastered the above -- and when I had partner teams widely viewed as difficult or bad partners coming to my GM and singing my praises as the go-to guy, *that* is when I became a Principal. "There is no greater de-motivator than a reward system that is perceived to be unfair. Help Your Manager (and your team) Be Successful: No one has more influence over whether you get promoted than your immediate mgr. And I'm hiring, yes, in this economy. you need to hit the pause button for one big time-out regarding where you are, where you're going, and what needs to change. She partners very closely with colleagues to develop and drive the people strategy across the UK GEO. Give the employee directives and start documenting when they fail so a case can be brought to get rid of them if it comes to that. The reason why they were 65's are:1. The second was threat (I have a serious offer outside the company that I am taking). I am a troll. You're selling it in no less than eight different SKUs, (including the upgrades) and your marketing message is deliberately obfuscated to convince the customers to go for the most expensive one. It's hard for L63. One question a manager will think about before promoting you is how many times he had to clean up after you pissed off someone else - especially if it's someone on another team. L68 would not be referred to as Director. If youve capped out at Level 62 then MS is probably not a great fit for you. Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. B.Sc in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Electronics, M.Sc in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Electronics, PhD in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Electronics, Designing and implementing Software and Hardware Systems, Benchmarking and validating Software and Hardware Systems, Developing innovative solutions and publish papers and patents, Managing teams and keep track of progress, Predicting market trends, identifying market risks, Identifying future opportunities, preparing company roadmap. 4. The last thing I would ever think about is what my boss thinks of me; I just don't care. Write it down in a team-culture career section you keep in OneNote (start that section now if you don't have it). 3. Years ago we had a dev on my team who was very high IQ and very driven, but was driving his lead nuts. I am a troll. Now the setup team for most products has more than 6 devs. Your Team: you have to be able to understand why the L63s and L64s are where they are. One thing I learned early is that the manager who says "I fought for you, sorry" is really saying "I'm too weak to make the case." Those people are almost all Level 62's with few prospects. That clarity may not always result in a promotion on the exact timeline you envision but if you're honest with yourself and have a good manager it really helps.I'm a 13 year Microsoft employee who lived through the bad old days of crappy managers. But coming back is a HUGE IF, since I can't see ever going back the that cesspool of stupid. Got two promotions - still level 60If you really got promoted twice then you would have advanced 2 levels.Either you didn't actually get promoted, or someone told you lies. If you can make the argument about the job - and you're in a position of strength, obviously harder now than in years past, you can make the case. In my own experience, even after being a great developer for 2+ years, with straight 4.0 scores at that time, and despite having Dev Manager roles before Microsoft, I would be turned down on informationals for Dev Lead positions with the simple question: Have you been a Dev Lead at Microsoft? No managers seems to want to talk to the previous managers for promo stuff and each wants at least 12 mos of time to think to observer. How? I left eight years after that when I realized that L66 wasn't going to happen for me.The bottom line: If your boss isn't pushing for you, get them on your side or leave the group. "Now that the Annual review is approaching"You're probably too late already. What I've learned is be very, very specific on your commits and accountabilites. I can vouch for the efficacy of this mantra.MS definitely does a good enough job on career progression and offering diverse options. The average salary for a Senior Director is $170,707 per year in United States, which is 65% lower than the average Microsoft salary of $500,742 per year for this job. Someone that 20 years ago made something as complex as Notepad may today be a VP, whereas if you make Notepad today you may not even get a pat on the back. I influenced the features, I lended my expertise on them, and I learned about the customer - all this way before the spec'ing phase. For some teams - especially those like Office with few departures release-to-release resulting in level compression - that's a rough bunch. They came from "hot" product teams. This topic didn't elicit nearly as many comments as I would have expected. Here are my thoughts on the Level 62 to Level 63 transition in the product groups: 1. What are other groups doing? >> You forgot "never ask for a promotion".This is better written as "Ask what specific things you are lacking in, which are preventing you from being promoted to the next level". My experience, I joined MSFT at 63 and in 3.5 years I am at 65. But power plays are at work and I get smacked when I try and take on extra work.So my question to the more experienced is this - how does one get the attention of management when they are focused on their own problems, their favorite underlings (of which I am not one), and when there is not enough work to go around?
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